Sumption admits to breaking lockdown rules "when they became absurd"

I doubt he was alone.

I know people who definitely did not break the rules in any way. And added some extra neuroses like washing their food and not opening post for three days 

my brother and sister in law are still not going anywhere other the shop once per fortnight each, and my mother isn't allowed in the house or to touch their children. I think they have gone actually mad. 

Linda the situation you describe is rather sad. I thought there weren’t many like that I think there are probably loads.

like those who have ventured out for the first time in ages, who give everyone the death stare as they go about their business.

there were a couple of very posh mid twenty somethings In Sainsbury’s yesterday. The guy was complaining how hard it was to socially distance . Dear god 

Ebitda, do you not even see a scintilla of irony in you commenting on other people complaining?

You are a 24/7, broken record airing your petty grievances about lockdown. Imagine Boris going off on one about someone else telling porky pies. That is you.

I thought there weren’t many like that I think there are probably loads.

My old man won't leave the house. It's desperately sad. He's 60. 

A co-worker doesn't think she will visit her parents (whom she is close to) in wales even after shielding ends.  Her father is shielded but her step mother works in a care home.

I asked if she couldn't just self isolate before she went but she said she still couldn't take the risk, she couldn't identify what risk, she just wasn't willing to take any risk at all.

Other than a Saturday trip to the supermarkets in Sandhurst, she has been wfh in a one bedroom flat since march.  She hasn't taken exercise, she has been outside to mow her front lawn and has spoken at a distance to her elderly neighbour downstairs.  That's it... for 4 months.

How she isn't a drooling wreck I don't know, on Teams you can see all her work stuff on the sofa as well as her workstation in her living room....

A lot of psychological damage has been done, admittedly probably to people already vulnerable to it. I wonder if someone like her will ever recover. Is she actually planning never to see her parents again?

so he sacked them off from Day 1 yes?

I also know plenty of strict lockdowners. My mum and dad for one.

So u flew ur family to the north east to be near your folks and they told you f 9ff?  Heh

No Judy, not as far as I know.  We have a wednesday evening "girls group" zoom call with about 6 to 8 women that I would think would make each and every one of us turn to drink....

She's worked a lot and she is just very welsh (not in a Richard Burton way), generally whingey and not very emotional, quite fatalistic " it is what it is".

I think she is just a delay person, she'll watch another month to see if there is another surge and then venture out.

Imagine not taking any exercise for four months in a bid to protect your health

I have no compassionate for people like that, they are morons

I know plenty of people who've been very strict. My parents, which made sense due to medical issues (they're now doing outdoor activities and my program of luring them out for outdoor pints and takeaways is working). 

More weirdly, lots of younger people in their twenties who seem utterly paranoid despite being (mostly immigrants) and so having no older family/friends here to infect and almost zero risk to themselves. 

Luckily most of the people I know are taking a sensible view on risks. Not just acting like pre crisis, but using their judgment. Actually using it not Dominic Cummings style. 

I know many here don't love Lord Sumption *but* he's providing an intelligent alternate view that is a voice that needs to be spoken aloud. Agree with them or not, the hastily enacted covid-19 laws can restrict civil liberties in ways that are unprecedented outside of wartime and it is right that they are challenged to be sure they are necessary and following legal precedent if they're too hold up in court, no?

I'm biased because I think his wit is amazing and I'm rather libertarian at heart, so feel free to disregard my opinion.

No, I did not at any point “fly my family to the north east” HTH

The point Can is that they don’t have legal effect. Either because of stated loopholes or because they’ve not been enforced. It’s the transfer of the obligation to maintain the rule of law from the state that does and should know better to the people who can’t and don’t. The problem with libertarianism in practice is it presupposes a level of intelligence and education not available to most people. 

There's an awful lot of bullshit talked on here about "lockdown". In the real world, people just shrugged, took sensible precautions, and got on with it. If there was a hurricane blowing, you wouldnt want to go outside, would you? Same with a deadly virus.

my spell in the U.K. earlier in the year was well before the U.K. entered lockdown

I hope this clarifies and helps avoid anyone maliciously spreading lies about me.

"The problem with libertarianism in practice is it presupposes a level of intelligence and education not available to most people. "

No argument from me, Totes.

 

Laz  didnt you run away back to HK as soon as it was getting to serious here and the situation in HK improved

The problem with libertarianism in practice is it presupposes a level of intelligence and education not available to most people. 

This is not a problem with libertarianism, but a problem with people.

But there is no solution to that problem. 

The State is just people cloaked with magic authority and armed with real sticks.

 

The problem with libertarianism in practice is it presupposes a level of intelligence and education not available to most people. 

One could equally truthfully say:

"The problem with democracy in practice is it presupposes a level of intelligence and education not available to most people."

"The problem with technocracy in practice is it presupposes a level of intelligence and education not available to most people"

 

Libertarianism allows people to be rational actors

What we have here is collectivist tyranny

"I asked if she couldn't just self isolate before she went but she said she still couldn't take the risk, she couldn't identify what risk, she just wasn't willing to take any risk at all."

The answer to this is surely to say you have a cough and get a test just before visiting?

Most people I know have been pretty lax.  Even my dad who's meant to be shielding gave up on that when he got bored of not seeing anyone.  I know plenty of older people arranging outdoor get togethers then going "oh well we'll sit inside a reasonable distance apart because it's not sunny".

"Laz  didnt you run away back to HK as soon as it was getting to serious here and the situation in HK improved"

No. I live in HK. However the above would have been a v good plan.

Guy Crouchback, I don't think you even need symptoms anymore. Someone I know was a bit paranoid about visiting their parents and got a test on the basis of that. 

Course they did, the rules are designed to assume a significant degree of non-compliance.  One of the reasons the rules are as severe as they are is because they have to take account of the whiners not complying so all the adults have to do extra.

Laughably ironic that the little babies crying about overly severe restrictions are actually the reason we have to have overly severe restrictions. 

oh right James, are they available to anyone on demand?  I didn't know that.

Compliance with lockdown  rules and guidance was higher not lower than expected.  I have been amused throughout this by the childlike gleeful posts of the anti "vuvuzelots" zealots, with examples of rules/guidance being ignored as if this suggested lockdown was falling apart when this has always been inevitable and was factored in to the thinking.  

Anyone got a link to a credible source setting out level of actual risk understandable by may person? Something I can send to hysterical relatives?

Along the lines of under 18s more likely to be struck by lightning than die of covid. Adults more likely to die in an RTA than catch bat flu. That sort of thing - risk re catching more important than risk re dying. 

the current estimate is I think round 1700 new cases a day (based on the ONS survey who do random testing

This would give one about a 1 in 40,000 chance of getting it on any given day or 1 in 1300 chance in a month.    However much of the infections happen in local clusters so inside those clusters chances much higher, outside much lower.  You may want to look up the infection rate for where they live because it might be tiny.

I’m thinking more general picture illustrations rather than actual numbers which don’t mean much to most people. 

No point Bull. People who previously gave no fucks about stuff that might kill them are now pissing themselves about this one although it’s often a lower risk for them (eg under 70s and flu - bet none of those terrified relatives have had flu vaccines for all of the last 5 years).

 

Try them with this article 

 

Coronavirus: How scared should we be? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52758024

"During the pandemic so far three under 15s have died. That compares to around 50 killed in road accidents every year."

Clearly you are not actually capable of not being like this. I suggest therapy 

honestly totes get a grip man! you’ve lost perspective- she’s not pol pot and this is a message board full of weirdos. let it go or she’s won. 

And thuggy gonna thug.

Imagine the scene over the breakfast table.

I thought Macawbre was King George?

I wish people wouldn’t change logins on a whim.

I've been having NCT classes via zoom and other than one bloke I already knew the rest are all paranoid mentalists, talking about how they're afraid to go shopping etc. It may be virtue signalling top trumps - who is the most concerned parent but it's all a bit weird. 

TBF with NCT you’re already starting with the Fanny meter turned up to 11 

"It may be virtue signalling top trumps who is the most concerned parent"

I think this sort of mindset plays a huge part in the general madness tbh 

There is a lot to be said for common sense. 

And what granny said.

supreme court justice.  he is literally above the law

 

The parents in my circle are fairly likeminded - perhaps why we have all connected pretty well. No madzers.

some of my other friends have properly caught the crazy and naturally it’s really impacted our virtual friendship 

I got told off for walking in front of someone who was stood in a socially distanced queue to pick up some cans of beer that happened to be where he was standing. He genuinely thought I should have queued up on one of the allotted spaces behind just to pick up the cans even though there was a shorter self service queue I was planning to wait in. 

Absolutely mental. I actually wish there were separate shops etc for people that neurotic and a designated  "covid relaxed" one for people who just want to go about their business without worrying every second about microscopic risks of infection.

It's always hilarious when you see someone like that buying fags as well 

 

My Nan lives at the top of the Valleys. Well into her 80s, diabetic, generally bonkers with questionable mobility.

Went down to Ponty (half hour on bus) on her own despite numerous family warnings and without telling anyone. Three days later my aunt visits and she is bruised absolutely everywhere, she casually says that she went to Ponty and was hit by a car in the town centre but didn’t want to cause a fuss as he seemed like a nice lad.

She is living the sort of Fuck Lockdown life that the mouthiest on here could only dream of.